Ray Flynn: 'I wish them luck'

by Doug Binder, The Oregonian

Tuesday May 05, 2009, 1:00 PM

Ray Flynn is known throughout track and field circles as one of the sport's most powerful sports agents. His clients include Alan Webb, Ryan Hall, Lauren Fleshman and Abdi Abdirahman.

But he also ran anchor when four lads from Ireland staged a 4-by-mile relay race as a charity fund-raiser in Dublin, Ireland in 1985.

I spoke with him today about that race, 24 years ago.

The Oregon Ducks quartet -- we're presuming the lineup includes Matthew Centrowitz, Andrew Wheating, Galen Rupp and probably Shadrack Biwott -- is aiming at the collegiate record.

But is the world record of 15:49.08 out of the question at the Oregon Twilight meet on Saturday?

Here is how the splits broke down in 1985:

Eamonn Coghlan, 4:00.2
Marcus O'Sullivan, 3:55.3
Frank O'Mara, 3:56.6
Ray Flynn, 3:56.98

Flynn said the hard thing about this race is that after the first leg is done, the next three guys are essentially time-trialing by themselves. And pacing to a sub-four isn't easy, even with fans
imploring you the entire way.

"It was pretty nerve-wracking," Flynn said. "Between us, no one anted to be the anchor beforehand, because we knew who ever it was could be in a marginal situation and miss (the record). I think there was some straw-drawing going on."

It worked that time. The Irish quartet smashed a record held previously by a group from New Zealand by about 10 seconds. The following year, they tried to go after the 4x1,500 meter record and in Flynn's worlds "failed miserably."

"It comes down to can you step on the track and run 3:56, and the next guy and the next guy on that day?," Flynn said.

If the weather isn't cooperative or one of the four isn't rolling, the record-chase can fall away pretty quick.

Flynn said he admires the talent in the Ducks' lineup. (He'd probably like to represent some of them some day).

"They definitely have a great team. But they'll have to line up and do it, and do it solo."

See more in UO outdoor track

Collegiate Action - Oregon Gets Record But Comes Up Short - FSU Jumpers Jump Far
The big news on the college front was Oregon going for it in the 4 x Mile. Prior to the race, we weren't quite sure what they'd be going for, as it was unclear if they'd field a squad of four Americans so they could go for the American record or field their 4 best milers. We give them a Thumbs Up for doing the right thing and putting Kenyan Shadrack Kiptoo Biwott on the team as the guy had beaten 3:36 1,500 meter runner Matt Centrowitz a few years ago. Heading into the race, there was some talk as to whether they could break Ireland's 15:49.08 world record or at least go sub-16:00.



Oregon's 4 x Mile race video.
While most LRC visitors clearly thought they'd easily go sub-16:00, analyzing it objectively ourselves, we figured there was no way they'd run faster than 15:57. What people don't realize is it's very hard to run by yourself from the front. We figured Centrowitz, Andrew Wheating and Galen Rupp, who might all be able to run 3:55 in a perfectly set up race, probably would run no faster than 3:57.5 for 2 of them and 3:59 for one of them. The wild card was the 4th leg. And since no other Duck had run faster than 3:46-7 for 1,500 this season, we figured the best they'd get out of this leg would be a 4:03, as you normally want to take someone's PR and add at least two seconds, which would indicate a 4:05-7 for this leg. Since we figured Kiptoo Biwott was really better than his PR, we thought maybe he could do 4:03. So we thought the sub-16 was possible but we also said to ourselves, "If that team is running at Penn Relays in the wind, where you don't get splits from an adoring crowd every 400, no way do they break 16:00."

In the end, our thoughts ended up being pretty accurate and we think the collegiate and Bowerman field record of 16:03.24 was the perfect ending on the night. Oregon gets the collegiate record, but the elusive sub-16:00 collegiate barrier remains intact.

Then we decided to figure out "Who truly is the greatest 4 x Mile team in collegiate history? How would the 2009 Duck team stack up against the old record holders, the 2005 Michigan Wolverine squad of Nick Willis, Nate Brannen, Andrew Ellerton and Mike Woods?" We decided to throw in the 2002 Stanford team of Don Sage, Grant Robison, Jonathon Riley and Gabe Jennings into the mix as well, as that was an old team coached by Lananna and there was talk that all 4 could go sub-4 on the same day. Here are the teams and their PRs on the day they made their 4 x Mile runs.

***Editor's Note: Nate Brannen emailed us this morning. He read our comparison and noticed that our pre-April 2005 PR's for Brannen and Ellerton were not correct. Part of his email reads: "I ran 3:39.05 in 2004 for the 1500 meters but ran 3:55.11 indoors in 2005. That converts to a 3:37.85 indoors. Given indoors is slower than outdoors, one would think I would run faster on a 400 meter track than a 200, but for this purpose, take the exact conversion from my mile time indoors. Ellerton ran 3:58.68 for the mile in 2004 in Burnaby, Canada and that converts to 3:41.19. This makes our average from 1500 (or converted mile times) to 3:38.2775." So we have changed the times below and also altered our analysis slightly, although this revelation only drives home our point further: Michigan 2005 was the best NCAA 4xmile team ever.

2009 Oregon 2005 Michigan 2002 Stanford
Runner #1 (weakest PR)
Kiptoo Biwott 3:45.00* (from 4:02.65 mile)

Ellerton 3:43.14 3:41.19 (from 3:58.68 mile)

Robison 3:42.73 (did run 3:41.72 later that year)
Runner #2
Rupp 3:40.00* (from 3:57.86 mile)

Woods 3:41.43 (did run 3:57.48 mile that year)

Sage 3:39.27 (only ran 3:40.31 that year)
Runner #3
Wheating 3:38.60

Brannen 3:39.05 3:37.85 (from 3:55.11i mile)

Riley 3:38.90 (did run 3:38.54 that year)
Runner #4 (strongest PR)
Centrowitz 3:36.92

Willis 3:32.64

Jennings 3:35.21 (only ran 3:41.48 that year)
Average 1,500 PR at time 3:40.13
3:39.035 3:38.2775

3:39.0275
Based on 1,500 PRs at the time of their 4 x Mile attempts, the 2005 Michigan team has the best average over Stanford by almost a second. the 2005 Michigan and 2002 Stanford teams are nearly 100% identical (although Stanford has the slight edge). Despite the narrow PR margin, it's clear to us that the 2002 Stanford team couldn't be the greatest collegiate 4 x Mile team in history as none of them went sub-4:00 in a 4 x Mile and they actually lost their race against Arkansas. Arkansas ran 16:09 to Stanford's 16:17 as Stanford's on-paper strength that year was very misleading, since Gabe Jennings was just a shadow of his former self.

The stats clearly reveal that the greatest 4 x Mile team (those that had actual 4 x Mile competitions, not converted 4 x 1,500s) in collegiate history (at least that we are aware of without trying to think back too far in history) is the 2005 Michigan Wolverine team, as those guys were all in their prime and on their way to running fast that year. Think about it; no way in hell do they lose with Willis on the anchor. The stats support what the LRC visitors said in the votes. 2005 Michigan would beat 2009 Oregon.

But a Thumbs Up to Oregon for going for it and creating some buzz. More: Ducks Get Collegiate Record, Miss 16-Minute Barrier *Message Board Thread Race Video above.

In other collegiate action, FSUs Brian Chibudu jumped a collegiate leader of 26'5 over the weekend. Scary to think that he's only the 2nd-best jumper on the team. FSU also features 2008 outdoor NCAA champ Ngoni Makusha, who has been injured (Makusha jumped for the first time outdoors this year and went 25'4.5"). A college team with two guys who have gone 8.0 meters. Very impressive.

When's the last time that there is a team so good that their 2nd-best jumper could win NCAAs? Oh wait, that was only 2007, when Cornell's Rayon Taylor won the triple jump when his teammate Muhammad Halim was injured.